А что обсуждают?

Рама и Лакшман. Моя любимая тема. Да, Чандра всегда всё выкручивает до какой-то сверхъестественной сложности. А на деле, всё гораздо проще. Кто был Раме ближе, Сита или Лакшман?
И если вопрос Хануману: "Кого ты больше любишь, Ситу или Раму?" - вызывает улыбку, то вопрос, кого больше любил Рама, Ситу или Лакшмана, вызывает , по крайней мере у меня другие эмоции. Впрочем, ладно, проматывайте!


This brings to mind a different question. After Lakshman had passed on, Rama decided that he couldn't take it anymore and asked Bharat to succeed him, while he went and joined Lakshman. Why didn't he simply do that w/ Sita - after the yagna, hand things over to Bharat or Lakshman, ask them to transition things to their own kids and to K-L as well before joining him? How come Sita's passing was bearable for him, but Lakshman's wasn't? Isn't one of the lessons from the Ramayan that a spouse is supposed to be an eternal companion, and closer than a sibling?


True it does, but in many instances Ram himself declares that he valued Lakshman more than he valued Sita.

When Lakshman was hurt in the battlefield and showed no signs of life, Ram lamented saying "I can find another like Sita among the best of womankind but I can never find another brother like you."

My guess was that Sita was already separated from him for a long time but Lakshman was always with him. He had given her up - though the separation and the knowledge that she is no more is painful he had already been away from her.

Probably when Lakshman too left him, he couldn't take it anymore. Even when Sita was separated from him, he found little comfort in Lakshman's company. Probably he felt that he couldn't carry on when the only person who had been his shadow (except the 1 year he was away from him) had gone away from him.

I am not saying that Sita was less devoted to Ram than Lakshman but Ram must have been more affected by the loss of Lakshman than when he lost Sita.



That's a good explanation, although somehow, I find it hard to justify, even though I can understand it.

One thing - when Rama promised Ka'al that he'd execute anyone who sees them, that was a promise he followed in a modified way - instead of executing Lakshman, he disowned him, and Lakshman went and was taken by Indra to Vaikuntha. So once Rama had disowned Lakshman, when he decided that he could no longer live w/o Lakshman and would go to join him, wasn't he breaking his vow? Granted, he didn't take a vow to disown him, but since that was his substitution for an execution, how exactly did he fulfil that promise by following Lakshman once he was gone? Under terms of this vow, he should have continued to rule as though nothing had happened, so that it also looked like he had actually disowned Lakshman. If he had executed Lakshman and then decided to give up his life, that would have been one thing, but since he disowned Lakshman, wouldn't joining him be symbolic of repossessing him? Or was the fact that Lakshman was no more a fulfillment of the 'execution' requirement, and therefore, Rama was at liberty to repossess him? ErmmErmmErmmErmmErmm


Quite complicating . . .

As per what I have read already, Maharishi Vashista suggested that in the case of noble souls, disowning the person is the same as executing the person. According to the books I have read, Ram, totally aghast on realising the fact he has to kill his own brother or atleast make sure he died called his ministers and his Guru to advise him on the matter. Some versions say that it was Guru Vashishta himself who suggested it. Some versions say it was Hanuman who suggested it. I prefer to follow the former - no offence to any versions. Ram agreed to this thinking that atleast Lakshman would live even if he was away from him.

The same type of explanation was given by Lord Krishna too when Arjuna sought to kill his brother Yudhishtra after the latter insulted him and his bow on being defeated by Karna in the battlefield.

There may be other instances in our Mythology and Puranas similar to these two.

I don't think Ram was breaking his vow. I do not know where it is stated in the norms, rules and regulations of the ancient society, but Maharishi Vashishta says that banishing/disowning or giving up Lakshman is as good as executing him/giving him a death sentence. By banishing Lakshman, he did fulfill the conditions.

The condition was to execute any person who had seen them or heard them talk - nothing more was specified. Whether Ram continued to rule or not does not matter after he had fulfilled the condition of executing the person who trespassed the meeting. After giving Lakshman his punishment, Ram was free to continue living or end his life. Nothing was mentioned of punishing himself (Ram) or there was nothing in the conditions laid by Kaal that Ram should not rejoin his brother.

Lakshman was punished and that was what the conditions stated. I don't think anything else was required to be fulfilled. As long as Ram did not recall Lakshman to Ayodhya or give him back his status in family and society, he did not break the vow.

@темы: Рамаяна

---

Закрытая запись, не предназначенная для публичного просмотра

---

Люблю смотреть статистику

Все ищут Кришну..
Серьёзно. Я поглядел, что Гугль.ин в моём дневнике делает. Надо картинок здесь напечатать из Джай Шри Кришны. Мальчонка то набирает популярность, а я опять этот сериал смотреть не могу, хотя, в последнем эпизоде, то как Кришна про себя Нараде рассказывал было сделано приятно, хорошо даже и как-то патетически.
Жаль, что мои видео-редакторы накрылись на Кубере и с тех пор - ни гугу.. Жаль.
А то бы я нарезал эпизод с Нарадой, а так - злокачественная реклама и длинный, на 14 минут ролик. Кстати, какой видео сайт разрешает большие ролики бесплатно размещать? Ю тюб меня ограничивает 10-ю минутами..

@темы: Рамаяна

---

Раван-10, Раван-100, Раван-1000, Пушпак Эйрлайнз и custody issues

Жучилки-2 или - проматываем!



Can you change the title to 'Playing Rakshasha's Advocate: How to extend the serial', since we are talking the Ramayan here????



Now this is not too serious. I personally think the serial should end soon without further dragging and strange sсript changes. However that is my serious opinion.





I'm actually mixed about this. Since they've already screwed up the Ramayan, I'd like them to do it quite a bit more royally, so that nobody is left under any illusions that what we've been watching is the real thing




My mischievous side is thinking of something else. We all know how the Sagars love to drag stories that shouldn't be stretched too long (PRC was a prominent example of this and now Ramayan has been stretched out of shape with Jataka Tales and some regional variations.)





Also, the Rani Padmini serial that they are going to show will have 100+ episodes, including her fighting the Khilji army. WTF are they going to show for so long? As for the Ramayan, I have a suggestion - since Rama's vanvas lasted 14 years, why not make that the duration of the serial as well?






So, playing Devil's Advocate just for fun , here are some ideas and stories from other versions of the epic that Sagars could use to drag this serial on and on and on and on.....




That is right. Actually, before the Uttarkand started, there was a suggestion thread of how to authentically extend the story - by showing events in Ayodhya, Mathura and Valmiki's ashram all in parallel, showing the growth of all the kids, the various stories narrated in the Ramayan, like Raja Budh & Hila, and so on. But nobody imagined the swarna-kamal saga that we were all subjected to.







The most obvious way of dragging the story is the Ashwamedha Yagya. There are many different stories and variants about the horse wandering from one kingdom to another. There is enough material here for the Sagars to literally drag the story of the wandering horse for several months before the climactic encounter between Ram and his sons. With hundreds of different versions of the Ramayan out there the possibilities are limitless.




Yep, particularly the Padma Purana story of how Shatrughan and Pushkal went w/ the horse, how the horse was captured by so many rulers, how Pushkal got killed by Virbhadra and then revived, and so on. So one could have that predecessor, followed by the story of the intensive battle K-L had not only w/ their Kakashris, but also w/ Hanuman, Sugriv, Angad, Vibhishan (!), Jambavan, and so on.






Tattvasamgraha Ramayana: Ram is informed by the rishis that there is a 100 headed Ravan who lives "beyond the seven seas" along with an asura called Raktabindhu. This Ravana has a boon that he cannot be killed any man. Sita then says that she wants to kill him. Ram agrees and sends her with Hanuman and other vanaras in the Pushpak Viman. Hanuman takes on the forms of Narasimha, Haygreeva and Garuda while Sita transforms into an eight-armed goddess and ultimately kills the 100-headed Ravan.
Clearly there is enough potential here to spend more than a week's worth of episodes given the slow pacing that Sagars are experts at.





I'd suggest adding some masala to this one. There has to be a pretext for the 2 to go to war, aside from the rishis doing their usual begging. Here's one pretext for Ravan-100 to do so. He had come to terms w/ the death of Ravan-10 and his family, but after hearing about Sita's vanvas, he was infuriated!!! After all, had Rama, after winning Sita, kept her, it would have made sense, but if he was going to exile her, why not simply let Ravan-10 have her in the first place? So Ravan-100 decides to punish Rama for making the deaths of Kumbhakarna, Indrajit, et al go to waste - and let's throw this in - making a pativrata like Sulochana a widow. So he invades Ayodhya and wipes out its entire population, and RLB is unable to kill him, and what's more, he captures Urmila and Mandavi and is returning w/ them. Sita hears about this and is furious, and decides to go and rescue them, and in the battle, she kills Ravan-100 and rescues Urmila & Mandavi. Since all the people of Ayodhya are dead and no longer around to cast aspersions on Sita, Rama recalls her and K-L, and they are happily united. Rama then sends Bharat & family to conquer and rule Gandhara, and Lakshman & family to conquer and rule Karupathadesh. A few years later, Rama installs Kush & Luv in Ayodhya, and his bros do the same for their kids. They then take Pushpak airlines and fly back to Vaikuntha.




Ananda Ramayan: Again we have a 100-headed Ravan who lives in Mayapura who, along with Poundrak (son of Nikumbha) defeats Vibhishan and drives him out of Lanka. Vibhishan asks for Ram's help and he goes to Lanka to wage war. Unfortunately Ram is defeated in battle and Sita kills both Poundrak and the 100-headed Ravan.
Ananda Ramayan: Vibhishan is driven out of Lanka (again!) by Mulakasura, Kumbhakarna's son after a 6 month long war. Ram takes Sugreev's soldiers and goes to Lanka where he fights Mulakasura for 7 days. At this point Brahma reveals that Mulakasura cannot be killed by a man due his boon. However he had been cursed by a rishi that he will be killed by Sita. Ram then tells Garuda to bring Sita to the battlefield where she transforms into Chandi, fights Mulakasura for 7 days and kills him.
There are also other smaller things that can be found in the Ananda Ramayan such as Ram bringing Sumantra back from the dead, Ram's promise to some apsaras, four brahmin women and 16,000 women that he will fulfill their wishes and marry them in his incarnation as Shri Krishna, etc . They've already taken some elements from this text so why not some more?




Ananda Ramayan is pretty much what's been shown here, aside from the Jataka stories, and leaving out Rama asking Lakshman for Sita's hand - literallyIf the Ramanand Sagar serial was predominantly based on Tulsidas, this serial seems to have been predominantly based on Swami Ananda. Since Tulsidas was based during Moghul times and Swami Ananda during the Golden Age, one could argue that the latter is more authentic.

Actually, Ananda Ramayan has a happy ending, in case the Sagars choose to show it - when Rama threatens Bhoomi Devi, instead of Brahma coming and giving him that flaky advise to ask K-L to sing the remainder of the Ramayan, Bhoomi Devi surrenders and returns Sita to him. I actually wouldn't have a problem w/ them showing this version at the end.


The only thing I don't like about the above 2 stories is Kumbhakarna's sons/grandson being involved and killed here. Also remember, there is Karkati-putra Bhimasura, who's actually capable of defeating Rama. But since his death happens at Shiva's hands and not Sita's, the best thing for him to do would be - you guessed it - wipe out Ayodhya's populace, and defeat Rama when he tries to avenge them.





Adbhuta Ramayan (Sanskrit version): And we go into even stranger territory. One day, Sita reveals to the assembled rishis that there is actually a senior and more powerful 1000 headed Ravan who lives on the island of Puskar. This Ravan was so powerful that he played with planets as if they were balls. Hearing this, Ram declares war on him and invades Puskar with his army. Unfortunately, this Ravan proved too powerful and killed all of Ram's soldiers and Ram himself faints due to exhaustion. Sita, who was with him, then decides to take things into her own hands. She transforms into Kali and starts fighting Ravan. Powerful matrikas emanate from her body and help her fight Ravan's army. Eventually she defeats him. Ram recites the thousand names of Sita and prays for her to go back into her normal form which she does.
There is a variation of this story: Ram boasted that he could easily defeat the 1000-headed Ravan just like he defeated the 10-headed Ravan. Sita was doubtful. Eventually Ram is defeated in battle and wept at his situation while Sita takes on the form of Kali to fight the 1000 headed Ravan. They fight for 10 years until Sita finally kills him, drinks his blood and cuts off his limbs and throws them around. She starts dancing with joy. The gods request Shiva to stop her and he throws himself at her feet. Then she stops and goes back to her form of Sita and rejoins Ram.





This one I don't like, since Sita is Lakshmi, and not Kali. But I'm just wondering - should we keep just Ravan-100, or have Ravan-1000 as well? The latter can choose to want to avenge Ravan-100's death, and be immune to both Rama & Sita. Maybe, this time, leave it to K-L, or Shatrughan & Bharat to kill him. Better still, have the Ayodhya 6 sons/nephews of Rama take on him and each destroy 125 heads of his, killing him After all, the nephews in particular seem to have such a dull life




I cannot recall the source for this but I did read this a long time ago: Ravan had a son, Saharasmuharavan who was a child when Ram killed his father. When he grew up, he obtained a boon from Brahma that only a truly chaste woman would be able to kill him. Then he attacked Vibhishan in Lanka and Sugreev in Kishkindha. Hearing this, Ram started preparations for war. Sahasramukharavan arrived in Kosala and started heading for Ayodhya to attack Ram himself. No one could stop him, not even Ram and his entire army. When the fact about Brahma's boon is revealed, Ayodhya's women are asked to go to the battlefield and fight this Ravan. As it turns out, not a single woman in Ayodhya was chaste enough to defeat the powerful enemy. Ram realized that only Sita could save them at this point. However, he was worried that Sita would not voluntarily come to his aid since he had banished her. So he instructed Hanuman to lie to Sita that he (Ram) was dying. Naturally Sita was extremely alarmed on hearing this and rushed to Ayodhya. Just outside the city, Sahasramukharavan refused to let her pass.Sita was outraged and she picked up a blade of glass, transformed it into a Shaktika missile using the power of her chastity and threw it at Ravan's heart. He died on the spot. Ram and rest of the people of Ayodhya came out, cheering for Sita who then realized that Hanuman had lied to her about Ram's health. She was angry and she cursed Hanuman that, just as his lie made her feel the pain of separation from Ram. he (Hanuman) would outlive them all and feel the true pain of separation from his Lord. After this she implored Mother Earth to take her into her abode.





I have mixed opinions re: the above story. On one hand, there is a delightful irony that the peeps of Ayodhya, who were so stringent about the chastity of their queen, didn't have it in their own womenfolk. On the down-side, I don't like the idea of Urmila or Mandavi being considered unchaste. Maybe tweak this somewhat so that these 2, along w/ Sita, fight Sahasramukharavan. Actually, have Sita kill Ravan-100, Urmila kill Sahasramukharavan, Mandavi kill Malakasura, and the kids take on Ravan-1000.



In the interests of dragging the serial, I think the Sagars can take all these stories of 100 and 1000 headed Ravans, mix them up, add their own masala and produce a tasty khichdi of many headed Ravans.









There is actually scope for extending the serial beyond Sita's descent into the Earth. According to two Assamese texts, the Patali Kanda by Dvija Panchanana and the Adbhuta Ramayana by Raghunatha Mahanta (not to be confused with a Sanskrit text also called Adbhuta Ramayana), after her descent Sita resides in Patala as Vratesvari Devi. She misses her sons terribly and eventually sends one or more nagas to abduct them and bring them to her. Naturally, Ram is worried about his children and Hanuman is sent to bring them back. He descends into Patala and engages in a number of adventures in his efforts to find them. I believe he even fights the nagas (I will have to check the books to confirm this). He also changes into several different forms. At one point he even transforms into a corpse to lure Sita out and convince her that he means no harm. Sita makes one final effort to defeat Hanuman by creating many doubles of herself. Hanuman fails to recognize the real Sita and threatens to burn himself. This causes Sita to finally relent and reveal herself. She returns her sons to Hanuman. In at least one of these versions Sita herself also returns to Ram.




A mischievious side of me suggests that this story be tweaked further. Think about it - why is it necessary for Sita's kids to rule Ayodhya (the same Sita whom they had insulted) - all they need is someone from Raghukul, and since Bharat is Yuvraj, let it be his responsibility to provide the heirs (maybe show Taksha or Pushkal being made ruler of Ayodhya). So my suggestion here is that Sita gets back her kids, and K-L beg that they stay eternally w/ mom, rather than dad. They make that point to Hanuman as well, and so Sita says that if Rama wants them, he'll have to come to them. Since we know that at the end of the story Rama goes to Vaikuntha after a dip in the Sarayu, what they can show here is that as a part of that process, after entering the Sarayu, Rama finds the entrance to the lok that Sita is in, and gets there, and is happy to be united w/ Sita. They then crown K-L as the ruler of the Nagas (throw in Kush's marriage to Kumudhati to muddy the waters even further) and then, w/ the other bros & wives, return to Vaikuntha.




There is a story about Ram's ring which can be found in many regional variations. The gist of the story is this: soon after Sita's descent into the Earth Ram drops his signet rin in a hole in the ground and asks Hanuman to fetch it. Hanuman descends into the Earth to look for the ring and eventually reaches Nag Lok where he found a vast assortment of rings, each one identical to Rama's signet ring. These were being guarded by Nagas who reveal to Hanuman that these rings all belong to Rama. Time is cyclical in nature and whenver the wheel of time comes around to the Treta Yuga there is an incarnation of Ram. And whenever the end of an incarnation of Ram approaches, he lets his ring fall into Nag Lok and Hanuman is sent after it. This folktale came about to acknoledge the staggering number of variants of the Ramayan. You can see the potential here for the Sagars to drag the serial. When the Nagas tell Hanuman about the rings, the Sagars can start showing us glimpses into the other iterations of the Ram incarnation using variants from other texts. This can be a mini-serial on its own.




Or show the ring w/ Sita, and she is very happy to have it, and says if Rama wants it back, he has to give her at least one of her sons. Rama refuses, and so Sita sends the ring via one of the Naga kidnappers, who leaves the ring w/ Rama, but kidnaps K-L. Then loop back to the previous story.




By means of a series of retroactive flashbacks, short stories of Ram, Sita and Hanuman can be shown: Ram and Sita get into a humorous argument (nothing serious!) over which of them receives more devotion from Hanuman who avoids the issue by saying his devotion is to "Sita Ram". To test him, Sita asks him to fetch some water while Ram wants him to fan him. Hanuman expands his arms and completes both tasks simultaneously thus satisfying them both. There is a Kutch oral tale in which Hanuman shows up in Ram's court with a woman on his shoulder. He says that the woman is "Mother Fate" and he has arrested her and brought her to court to ask her why she wrote such injustice in Sita's fate. Her replies don't satisfy Hanuman and he starts beating her. Then she presents him with a conundrum: who wrote that she would be mistreated by Hanuman in this manner? This calms Hanuman and he apologised to the goddess. There are many such tales that can be included to keep on dragging the serial forever,





This one would be a hoot. After all, we were cussing Vidhi and his great vidhan, and now you have it that Vidhi turns out to be a 'she'. That would prevent guys like me from torturing her, so I guess it will be upto our female readership here to do it. But the same conundrum would remain - anybody who did choose to torment Vidhi would be doing it at the behest of Miss Vidhi? What a story!!!

Incidentally, my candidate to play this Vidhi-devi would be Sunanda - the lovely hostess who made Kush her slave and made him wash their clothes.




If I am not mistaken, this is from the Kathasaritsagara: some rishis at Valmiki's ashram being to doubt her since her husband had exiled her. Sita tells them that they may test her in any way they like to confirm her innocence. The rishis tell her about a lake where another woman, also wrongly driven out by her husband, had been helped by Mother Earth. They ask Sita to go that lake and see if something like that happens. Sita goes there and calls on Mother Earth to appear and carry her across the lake as a sign of her innocence. Mother Earth grants her prayers. The rishis are convinced that she is innocent and begin to blame Ram for her wrongful banishment. She stops them from saying anything bad about her husband.





I'd twist this one as well - make the rishis go to Ayodhya and doubt the chastity of those who cast aspersions on Sita. So obviously, knowing how Rama respects rishis, they decide to approach them and ask them how to convince them otherwise, and the rishis ask them to do a test in which if they are chaste, their husbands will become impotent, but they will become virgins again, and re-ready for marriage. This happens only to those women who didn't doubt Sita - those who did would be instantly widowed.




The story of Hanuman composing a Ramayan. There are many variants but the gist is this: Ram becomes very withdrawn after Sita's banishment and keeps to himself, always depressed. Hanuman finds Ayodhya too empty and depressing in such a situation and he begins spending a lot of time on a particular mountain where there are many crystalline stone slabs. Hanuman starts to inscribe Ram's story in Sanskrit on these slabs with his fingernails. Many years go by and Hanuman becomes oblivious to the pasage of time. Meanwhile, Valmiki has completed his own version of the epic and one day he is informed about Hanuman's version. Out of curiosity, he asks Hanuman to show it to him. Hanuman carries Valmiki to the top of the mountain and shows him the stone slabs spanning the cliffs with the Ramayan written all over them. Valmiki goes all over the mountain, reading the epic and getting overwhelmed with emotion. Finally he reaches the end and goes silent and a bit sad. Hanuman asks him why he is sad and whether there are any faults in his poetry. Valmiki says that Hanuman's Ramayan is glorious and unequaled. Then he adds that , once people hear this Ramayan they will never want to listen to his one. Hanuman is momentarily shocked and then he smiles. He says it is a small issue and Valmiki shouldn't be bothered by it. Then he puts all of the stone slabs on one his shoulders and carries Valmiki on the other. He flies over the ocean and drops the slabs into the water, offering them to Ram. Hanuman's Ramayan is lost forever. Valmiki is ashamed and feels guilty. He thinks that it would have been better if Hanuman had thrown him into the ocean instead of destroying such a wonderful piece of work. But Hanuman has no regrets and tells him that he just wrote the story to pass the time and there is nothing more to it. Valmiki blesses him and then tells him that, some day he will be born again and devote himself to Hanuman, teach others about him and retell the story that Hanuman had composed.





And gets reborn as Ananda Sagar





I'll add more later. Please don't take this the wrong way. It's just a fun way of looking at variations in the epic for general knowledge and a little bit of poking fun at the way Sagars tend to drag serials on and on.




Yep, it's a fantabulous idea. You can see what I alone could do w/ it - imagine what the whole lot of us could pull off from this

@темы: Рамаяна

---

Жучилки - или рабочее - проматываем!

* The most obvious way of dragging the story is the Ashwamedha Yagya. There are many different stories and variants about the horse wandering from one kingdom to another. There is enough material here for the Sagars to literally drag the story of the wandering horse for several months before the climactic encounter between Ram and his sons. With hundreds of different versions of the Ramayan out there the possibilities are limitless.

* Tattvasamgraha Ramayana: Ram is informed by the rishis that there is a 100 headed Ravan who lives "beyond the seven seas" along with an asura called Raktabindhu. This Ravana has a boon that he cannot be killed any man. Sita then says that she wants to kill him. Ram agrees and sends her with Hanuman and other vanaras in the Pushpak Viman. Hanuman takes on the forms of Narasimha, Haygreeva and Garuda while Sita transforms into an eight-armed goddess and ultimately kills the 100-headed Ravan.

Clearly there is enough potential here to spend more than a week's worth of episodes given the slow pacing that Sagars are experts at.

* Ananda Ramayan: Again we have a 100-headed Ravan who lives in Mayapura who, along with Poundrak (son of Nikumbha) defeats Vibhishan and drives him out of Lanka. Vibhishan asks for Ram's help who goes to Lanka to wage war. Unfortunately Ram is deafeated in battle and Sita kills both Poundrak and the 100-headed Ravan.

* Ananda Ramayan: Vibhishan is driven out of Lanka (again!) by Mulakasura, Kumbhakarna's son after a 6 month long war. Ram takes Sugreev's soldiers and goes to Lanka where he fights Mulakasura for 7 days. At this point Brahma reveals that Mulakasura cannot be killed by a man due his boon. However he had been cursed by a rishi that he will be killed by Sita. Ram then tells Garuda to bring Sita to the battlefield where she transforms into Chandi, fights Mulakasura for 7 days and kills him.

There are also other smaller things that can be found in the Ananda Ramayan such as Ram bringing Sumantra back from the dead, Ram's promise to some apsaras, four brahmin women and 16,000 women that he will fulfill their wishes and marry them in his incarnation as Shri Krishna, etc . They've already taken some elements from this text so why not some more?

* Adbhuta Ramayan (Sanskrit version): And we go into even stranger territory. One day, Sita reveals to the assembled rishis that there is actually a senior and more powerful 1000 headed Ravan who lives on the island of Puskar. This Ravan was so powerful that he played with planets as if they were balls. Hearing this, Ram declares war on him and invades Puskar with his army. Unfortunately, this Ravan proved too powerful and killed all of Ram's soldiers and Ram himself faints due to exhaustion. Sita, who was with him, then decides to take things into her own hands. She transforms into Kali and starts fighting Ravan. Powerful matrikas emanate from her body and help her fight Ravan's army. Eventually she defeats him. Ram recites the thousand names of Sita and prays for her to go back into her normal form which she does.

There is a variation of this story: Ram boasted that he could easily defeat the 1000-headed Ravan just like he defeated the 10-headed Ravan. Sita was doubtful. Eventually Ram is defeated in battle and wept at his situation while Sita takes on the form of Kali to fight the 1000 headed Ravan. They fight for 10 years until Sita finally kills him, drinks his blood and cuts off his limbs and throws them around. She starts dancing with joy. The gods request Shiva to stop her and he throws himself at her feet. Then she stops and goes back to her form of Sita and rejoins Ram.

* I cannot recall the source for this but I did read this a long time ago: Ravan had a son, Saharasmuharavan who was a child when Ram killed his father. When he grew up, he obtained a boon from Brahma that only a truly chaste woman would be able to kill him. Then he attacked Vibhishan in Lanka and Sugreev in Kishkindha. Hearing this, Ram started preparations for war. Sahasramukharavan arrived in Kosala and started heading for Ayodhya to attack Ram himself. No one could stop him, not even Ram and his entire army. When the fact about Brahma's boon is revealed, Ayodhya's women are asked to go to the battlefield and fight this Ravan. As it turns out, not a single woman in Ayodhya was chaste enough to defeat the powerful enemy. Ram realized that only Sita could save them at this point. However, he was worried that Sita would not voluntarily come to his aid since he had banished her. So he instructed Hanuman to lie to Sita that he (Ram) was dying. Naturally Sita was extremely alarmed on hearing this and rushed to Ayodhya. Just outside the city, Sahasramukharavan refused to let her pass.Sita was outraged and she picked up a blade of glass, transformed it into a Shaktika missile using the power of her chastity and threw it at Ravan's heart. He died on the spot. Ram and rest of the people of Ayodhya came out, cheering for Sita who then realized that Hanuman had lied to her about Ram's health. She was angry and she cursed Hanuman that, just as his lie made her feel the pain of separation from Ram. he (Hanuman) would outlive them all and feel the true pain of separation from his Lord. After this she implored Mother Earth to take her into her abode.

In the interests of dragging the serial, I think the Sagars can take all these stories of 100 and 1000 headed Ravans, mix them up, add their own masala and produce a tasty khichdi of many headed Ravans. LOL

* There is actually scope for extending the serial beyond Sita's descent into the Earth. According to two Assamese texts, the Patali Kanda by Dvija Panchanana and the Adbhuta Ramayana by Raghunatha Mahanta (not to be confused with a Sanskrit text also called Adbhuta Ramayana), after her descent Sita resides in Patala as Vratesvari Devi. She misses her sons terribly and eventually sends one or more nagas to abduct them and bring them to her. Naturally, Ram is worried about his children and Hanuman is sent to bring them back. He descends into Patala and engages in a number of adventures in his efforts to find them. I believe he even fights the nagas (I will have to check the books to confirm this). He also changes into several different forms. At one point he even transforms into a corpse to lure Sita out and convince her that he means no harm. Sita makes one final effort to defeat Hanuman by creating many doubles of herself. Hanuman fails to recognize the real Sita and threatens to burn himself. This causes Sita to finally relent and reveal herself. She returns her sons to Hanuman. In at least one of these versions Sita herself also returns to Ram.

* There is a story about Ram's ring which can be found in many regional variations. The gist of the story is this: soon after Sita's descent into the Earth Ram drops his signet rin in a hole in the ground and asks Hanuman to fetch it. Hanuman descends into the Earth to look for the ring and eventually reaches Nag Lok where he found a vast assortment of rings, each one identical to Rama's signet ring. These were being guarded by Nagas who reveal to Hanuman that these rings all belong to Rama. Time is cyclical in nature and whenver the wheel of time comes around to the Treta Yuga there is an incarnation of Ram. And whenever the end of an incarnation of Ram approaches, he lets his ring fall into Nag Lok and Hanuman is sent after it. This folktale came about to acknoledge the staggering number of variants of the Ramayan. You can see the potential here for the Sagars to drag the serial. When the Nagas tell Hanuman about the rings, the Sagars can start showing us glimpses into the other iterations of the Ram incarnation using variants from other texts. This can be a mini-serial on its own. Wink

* By means of a series of retroactive flashbacks, short stories of Ram, Sita and Hanuman can be shown: Ram and Sita get into a humorous argument (nothing serious!) over which of them receives more devotion from Hanuman who avoids the issue by saying his devotion is to "Sita Ram". To test him, Sita asks him to fetch some water while Ram wants him to fan him. Hanuman expands his arms and completes both tasks simultaneously thus satisfying them both. There is a Kutch oral tale in which Hanuman shows up in Ram's court with a woman on his shoulder. He says that the woman is "Mother Fate" and he has arrested her and brought her to court to ask her why she wrote such injustice in Sita's fate. Her replies don't satisfy Hanuman and he starts beating her. Then she presents him with a conundrum: who wrote that she would be mistreated by Hanuman in this manner? This calms Hanuman and he apologised to the goddess. There are many such tales that can be included to keep on dragging the serial forever,

* If I am not mistaken, this is from the Kathasaritsagara: some rishis at Valmiki's ashram being to doubt her since her husband had exiled her. Sita tells them that they may test her in any way they like to confirm her innocence. The rishis tell her about a lake where another woman, also wrongly driven out by her husband, had been helped by Mother Earth. They ask Sita to go that lake and see if something like that happens. Sita goes there and calls on Mother Earth to appear and carry her across the lake as a sign of her innocence. Mother Earth grants her prayers. The rishis are convinced that she is innocent and begin to blame Ram for her wrongful banishment. She stops them from saying anything bad about her husband.

* The story of Hanuman composing a Ramayan. There are many variants but the gist is this: Ram becomes very withdrawn after Sita's banishment and keeps to himself, always depressed. Hanuman finds Ayodhya too empty and depressing in such a situation and he begins spending a lot of time on a particular mountain where there are many crystalline stone slabs. Hanuman starts to inscribe Ram's story in Sanskrit on these slabs with his fingernails. Many years go by and Hanuman becomes oblivious to the pasage of time. Meanwhile, Valmiki has completed his own version of the epic and one day he is informed about Hanuman's version. Out of curiosity, he asks Hanuman to show it to him. Hanuman carries Valmiki to the top of the mountain and shows him the stone slabs spanning the cliffs with the Ramayan written all over them. Valmiki goes all over the mountain, reading the epic and getting overwhelmed with emotion. Finally he reaches the end and goes silent and a bit sad. Hanuman asks him why he is sad and whether there are any faults in his poetry. Valmiki says that Hanuman's Ramayan is glorious and unequaled. Then he adds that , once people hear this Ramayan they will never want to listen to his one. Hanuman is momentarily shocked and then he smiles. He says it is a small issue and Valmiki shouldn't be bothered by it. Then he puts all of the stone slabs on one his shoulders and carries Valmiki on the other. He flies over the ocean and drops the slabs into the water, offering them to Ram. Hanuman's Ramayan is lost forever. Valmiki is ashamed and feels guilty. He thinks that it would have been better if Hanuman had thrown him into the ocean instead of destroying such a wonderful piece of work. But Hanuman has no regrets and tells him that he just wrote the story to pass the time and there is nothing more to it. Valmiki blesses him and then tells him that, some day he will be born again and devote himself to Hanuman, teach others about him and retell the story that Hanuman had composed.

@темы: Рамаяна

---

Promo

@темы: Рамаяна

---

И кое что ещё

@темы: Рамаяна

---

Субботние сказки

Сюжет про Ахи и Махи. Ну это большая тема!
Ахиравана и Махиравана были два практически бессмертных ракшаса. А как им удавалось такое "практическое" бессмертие? А у них были ручные пчёлы! Пасечниками Ахи и Махи были. Пчёлы эти вместо нектара знали где добывать амриту. Ха! Вот так и фраза! Амрита - это и есть нектар! Но тем не менее. Как только жизни ракшасов угрожала опасность, пчёлки тут же слетались и впрыскивали им амриту. Такие умные пчёлки!

@темы: Рамаяна

---

Update

Рама будет петь..
А это - хорошо! Чесслово!
Я-то думал, что он петь уж до конца не будет, но вот..

@темы: Рамаяна

---

Утреннее

Красивый бхаджан, исполняемый Випином Сахадевой:



Обратите внимание, кто изображён на иконе на отметке 4:06...

@темы: Рамаяна

---

Эпизод от 29 мая

Диалог между Рамой и Ситой. Пусть вас не смущают ласковые взгляды и романтические декорации. Ничего доброго/хорошего в этой сцене нет!

Рама: Кто вы, деви? Я вас не узнаю.
Сита: Что вы такое говорите, свами? Вы меня не узнаёте? Я - Сита, ваша жена. Вы не узнаёте вашу жену, из-за которой вы прошли через леса и убили жестокого Равана?!
Рама: О чём вы говорите? Я вас действительно не знаю, вы должно быть, ошибаетесь.

И зачем Шакунталу сюда мешать?

запись создана: 30.05.2009 в 10:30

@темы: Рамаяна

---

Новое промо видео

Вчера показали новое промо-видео. Оно такое депрессивное, ... мама ...


Рама спит под боком у какого-то крокодила?

Что-то Сагары и впрямь загибают..
Решил перечислить "страшные" эпизоды:
агнипарикша - раз
агнисамадхи Лакшмана - два
Сита, мстительно говорящая Раме про прогнанных в лес детей - три
Вчерашний эпизод, кстати, тоже - скоро переведу
и теперь вот - ашвамедха?

@темы: Рамаяна

---

Рабочее - проматываем!

The Asvamedha battles happen in Ananda Ramayan. The flower episode happens during the yagna. Sita needs to do the Vrat pooja with these special lotuses that grow in abundance in the pond in Ramji's garden. She sends her sons. Ananda Ramayan states that it is Lava who is the bolder of the two brothers. Lava goes every day to the pond to get the lotuses because the flowers have to be fresh for the pooja. It is only on the eighth day the guards start to suspect that the flowers are disappearing from the pond. They try to capture Lava and take him to Ramji but Lava's arrow flings the guards and they fall in Ramji's yagna spot.

On the 9th day, Ramji's sena lie in wait for Lava to appear. They beseige Lava. Lava then derides Ramji for the banishment of Sita. Rama hears of Lava's words from his guards. He also comes to know that this young lad is a disciple of Valmiki. Lava beats the guards this time around also and escapes. The guards report this to Ramji. Rama then sends for Valmiki. Now, all this is from Ananda Ramayan.

During this time of the flower episode the yagna is going on simultaneously and the horse with Satrughan following it has started to roam. Valmiki comes to the yagna place as he is summoned by Ramji after the flower episode. Valmiki comes with the two boys and with Sita in a palanquin. Valmiki asks the boys to sing the epic in the surrounding areas. Rama learns of the singing and asks them to come to the yagna place and sing for him. When Lava comes to sing the guards identify Lava as the thief of the lotuses. When Ramji questions Lava, he just says that it was a strategy to meet Ramji.

Lava is let go. Kusa is taking a bath in the Ganges when Lava sees the sacrificial horse roaming around. Lava defeats Shatrughna, Lakshman, and others with all the astras they get from Valmiki. According to Ananda Ramayan, Rama fights with Lava too but one is not able to defeat the other. Rama sends for Valmiki again to ask him about the boys. Valmiki tells him that he will reveal the information the next day.

The next day, the boys are asked to sing the Ramayan in the yagna place. It is then Ramji comes to know that the boys are his sons. Then Sita comes and she is asked to take the Oath of Chastity. She does and goes into the earth. Ramji gets very angry and asks the earth mother to give Sita back or he would destroy the planet. The Earth goddess gives Sita back to Ramji. Ramji takes her back and they live as husband and wife for a long time together. They also rule Ayodhya together.

Strictly IMHO, I like the Ananda Ramayan ending where they stay together after the oath. I wonder if the Sagars will show that or the Valmiki version for the end. In Ananda Ramayan, the story of Ram continues with various episodes until the sons of all the brothers are grown, get married, and become adults. Sumantra and the mata pass away also. In the end Rama, his brothers, and Sita crown all the children kings of various countries and then leave the prithvi lok for Vaikunt.

@темы: Рамаяна

---

Закрытая запись, не предназначенная для публичного просмотра

---

Закрытая запись, не предназначенная для публичного просмотра

---

Эпизод от 28 мая

Неплохой эпизод, но Чандра, как всегда, раскритиковал всё направо и налево.
Вальмики рассказывает Лаве и Кушу про раджу Раму и про изгнание Ситы. У детишек формируется своё собственное мнение о событиях, чем Сита сильно опечалена.
Тем временем в Айодхье обсуждают приготовления к Ашвамедхе, ко двору прибывает гуру Васиштха, который и будет проводить обряд, а Каушалья серьёзно просит Рама жениться по второму разу, дабы не нарушать обряда, который положено проводить с женой.
Вот отрывок:



ai Sri Ram

Bharat - No bhaiya, you cannot do rajsuya yajna. I oppose this.
(Wish it would have been shown that Bharat talked softly.)
Laxman - What are you saying, bhaiya? At this time, we should voice our opinions.
Bharat - Laxman, by opposing rajsuya yajna, I have merely voiced my opinion. Who doesn't know that rajsuya yajna causes wars? Any strong king sees this as a challenge. To make the people of Ayodhya happy, how can we put the lives of other kings in danger?
Ram - Bharat, it is never my aim to indulge in wars. This yajna is the pinnacle of raj-dharm. It also makes people happy.
Bharat - Bhaiya, you have always taken care of the happiness of your people. You even sacrified your own happiness for their sake. All give respect to you. Then what is the need to put the world in trouble by doing rajsuya yajna?
Ram - Your thoughts are great. Therefore, we will not do yajna.
Laxman - No bhaiya, we have to decide which yajna will be good for the world. Ashwamedh yajna destroys sins and gives virtue. Therefore I request that you do ashwamedh yajna.
Ram - It is true that ashwamedh yajna gives virtue. I incurred the sin of brahm hatya by killing Ravan. By doing ashwamedh yajna, I will become free from sins like Indra.
Bharat also agrees.
Ram - We will take permission from gurudev for this yajna.

Valmiki is teaching Luv and Kush
Sri Ram jai Ram jai jai Ram
Sri Ram jai Ram jai jai Ram
Guruvar gyani sunaye Ram kahani
Guruvar gyani sunaye Ram kahani
Piye dono bhrata
Piye dono bhrata Hari ganga ka pani
Guruvar gyani sunaye Ram kahani

Ram's story is shown in flashback thus indicating that Valmiki is telling the story of Ramayan to Luv and Kush.
Valmiki - This way Sri Ram exiled devi Sita.
Luv Kush - This is injustice gurudev. You said that Sri Ram is Vishnu's incarnation. Being Vishnu's incarnation, can anybody do such an act? Devi Sita was always with him. And for such a small reason, he exiled her? Even after agni pariksha, his doubts were not cleared? Gurudev, why are you quiet? Don't you think that Sri Ram made a mistake?
Valmiki - Not at all. Sri Ram followed his raj-dharm and for any great king, nothing is more important than his people.
Luv - What kind of raj-dharm is this?
Valmiki - Son, you will understand everything in due course.

Luv and Kush go to Sita.
LK - Ma, gurudev says that by exiling devi Sita, Sri Ram followed raj-dharm. What is this, raj-dharm? Ma, wasn't Sri Ram wrong? Did he not do any injustice?
Sita - He is a great king. He can never do injustice.
Luv - Giving vanvas to devi Sita without any fault of hers - if this is not adharm, then what is it?
Sita - May be he was helpless?
LK - How can a king be helpless? Being a king, he was affected by somebody's sayings? He did not think anything?
Sita - He must have thought over it.
Luv - Like gurudev, you are also taking Sri Ram's side. This is not right.
Kush - You should oppose it.
Sita - It is not right to oppose without knowing the reality. How do you know in what situation he took such a decision?
Kush - Gurudev told us everything. We will never consider it right.
Luv, Kush go out.
Sita thinks - I feared this. If they come to know that Raghunandan Sri Ram is their father, then what will happen? Will the sons be against their father?

Vashishth meets Ram.
Ram - Pranam gurudev, I was waiting for you. If you allow, then I would like to do ashwamedh yajna.
Vashishth - This is an excellent idea. Ashwamedh yajna is very glorious. This yajna frees a person from your problems and gives him happiness.
Ram - Gurudev, it is my request that you perform the yajna considering all its rules.
Vashishth - I will be happy to do that.
Ram - Sumant ji, invite all kings and rishis of Aryavart. Send a special invitation to Madhupuri's king Shatrughan. Bharat, invite all neighbouring kings. Nobody should be left out.

In Valmiki ashram
Valmiki - The invitation for ashwamedh yajna was sent to all kings and rishis. I will tell you the story after this tomorrow. In the morning, I will give you divine weapons.
Luv and Kush are happy to hear this.
LK - Pranam, gurudev.
Valmiki thinks - What much Ayodhyavasis be thinking about the ashwamedh yajna? Will they be happy?

In Ayodhya
People are talking about the yajna. They are happy that there will be such a big celebration. They are praising their king Sri Ram.

Kaushalya - What kind of decision is this? The whole world worships you. Your fame is spread far and wide. What else do you need?
Ram - Ma, fame has never been my concern. I want to do this yajna to free from the sin of Brahm-hatya and to bring happiness to people.
Kaushalya - But you did not think over it in detail.
Ram - I thought over it, Ma.
Kaushalya - If you did, then you would never have taken such a decision. Both husband and wife participate in ashwamedh yajna. If you want to do this yajna, then you will have to bring Sita back from forest.
Ram - This cannot happen.
Kaushalya - Why can't this happen?
Ram - Nobody knows where Sita is.
(Being an emperor, he cannot find out Sita's whereabouts?Confused)
Kaushalya - Then you have to overturn the decision of ashwamedh yajna.
Ram - Ma, ashwamedh yajna is for the sake of people and for me, nothing is more important than my people.
Kaushalya - If you want to do ashwamedh yajna, then you will have to remarry.
Ram is shocked to hear this.

Precap - Valmiki gives yogic power to Luv and Kush.

@темы: Рамаяна

---

Рабочее - проматываем

I am not familiar w/ most of the details about the Ashwamedha yagna. However, one thing I do know is that while the Rajasuya yagna (like the one Yudhisthir did when he was ruler of Indraprastha) was a campaign of world conquest, with the acceptance of rulers who offered their allegances as vassals, the Ashwamedha was a horse going randomly, and only the kingdoms that it travelled in being subject to the challenge. Also, the Ashwamedha choices to a ruler faced w/ the options were:

Letting the horse move freely symbolized his acceptance of the overlordship, friendship and protection of the ruler
If the horse was captured, a battle ensued between the capturer and the protector of the horse
If the protector of the horse won, then the outcome was treated like option 1, where the defeated party was now a vassal of the emperor conducting the Ashwamedha yagna
If the challenger won, then now he was required to conduct a new Ashwamedha yagna of his own (this last seems contradicted in the Mahabharat, where Arjun was temporarily killed by Chitrangada's son Babruvahana, and therefore did not establish Pandava suzereinity over Manipuri, but Babruvahana, far from conducting an yagna of his own, attended Yudhisthir's yagna along w/ Chitrangada and Uloopi)
So while the Rajasuya and Ashwamedha yagnas were almost identical in that they sought to establish the suzereinity of that kingdom over all others, or as many others, the last condition that a ruler who defeated an Ashwamedha performer was himself required to do one could possibly have been a constraining factor to a knee-jerk opposition. After all, if a ruler was simply being challenged over his independence, the choice was plain - wage war. But if a ruler had the Ashwamedha challenge - that there was also a consequence to winning - he'd have to think long and hard. After all, an Ashwamedha yagna was a long and elaborate affair (I believe the entire yagna lasted a year) that could be a huge economic burden on a kingdom, which would have been why only rich and powerful kingdoms could have performed it.

One question - does Bharat's objection to the Rajasuya yagna, and Lakshman's suggestion of the Ashwamedha yagna, appear in Valmiki? What exactly does 7:83-84 say? I know that the next few chapters are Rama and Lakshman narrating to each other stories like Indra & Vritra, Budh & Hila, et al.

Also in the original Valmiki, far from trying to convince Sita to re-join her husband, Valmiki goes out of his way to tell the kids not to reveal who their father was (even though they knew): for instance, when Lakshman, at the point of offering them the 18000 gold coins, asked them that, they (were to and did) ask him how was it relevant to their project of singing the Ramayan, and the Guru was more important in the context, and that their guru was Valmiki. It was only after they had sung everything up to that point in the story that Rama either realized that they were Sita's kids, or asked them and found out.

So given how Valmiki totally left it to Rama to decide whether he wants them or not, the scene on Wednesday of his urging Sita to re-join her husband was totally ahistorical. Yep, I know, we are talking the same serial that gave us the gazillion vidhans of the great vidhi, but now that we are looking at the part of the story which is mentioned in the original, these differences are worth pointing out for the sake of anyone who believes what's being shown. So far, in this serial, we have:

Valmiki urging Sita to return
Valmiki wanting K-L to inherit Rama's throne (w/ that bizzare story of how to divvy up the fruits)
Most bizarre - Valmiki telling Sita that Rama had disowned Sita, but not the kids. But that's only possible had Rama retained Sita until his kids were born, and then exiled her, so how does the above make sense?
All of which can be shown to be contradicted by the original

@темы: Рамаяна

---

И ещё

Возлюбленный Чандра наконец разродился парочкой видео.
Коронация Шатругхны в Мадхупури риши Чьяваном:
генерал докладывает, что все мудрецы освобождены, а ракшасы - наоборот - посажены.
Затем начинается сама церемония. Чандра справедливо замечает про отсутствие махарани.

@темы: Рамаяна

---

Эпизод от 27 мая

Приятно было видеть Рамаяну в старом добром русле!
Эпизод действительно был хороший:
Показывали: 3 места действия - берег Сараю - реки, ашрам Вальмики, дворец в Айодхье.
Звучали красивые песни. Актёры.. Актёры - хорошо играли.
А вот Гурмит Чоудхари... Ох..
ГУРМИТ БЫЛ ПРЕКРАСЕН!



Он вернулся в своё амплуа - раджа во дворце. Помните, когда-то давно, ещё до изгнания Ситы, я жаловался на театр одного актёра? Так вот - сейчас это так, только лучше.
Наш Рагхунандан - возмужавший и сильно похудевший. Таким на экране он ещё не был.
Анкит Арора.. Браво! Появилось у него мастерство донести до зрителя то, кем он в действительности является. Надо отметить, что и верный Суманта заслуживает похвалы. Надо будет посмотреть, кто его играет.
Маленькая деталь. Рама-тиран. Выдумка ли это Сагаров или что, но Чоудхари вписывается в эту роль, как никто.
Картинки:

запись создана: 28.05.2009 в 22:17

@темы: Рамаяна

---

А что показывают?

Великая Арьяварта. Как-то забываешь за действием, где они все живут.
Брахман-хатья - грех убийства брахмана. Преследовал Рамачандру до конца его дней.
Ашвамедха - только с женой. Каушалья пытается заставить Рама жениться по новой. Драма на две серии?

@темы: Рамаяна